By MELINDA J. OVERSTREET
for Glasgow News 1
Attendance was light at the Young Professionals of Barren County meet-and-greet and Q&A event for Glasgow council candidates Tuesday evening, other than the members of the YPBC planning, the candidates and a few of their family members, and media representatives.
A dozen of the 17 candidates for Glasgow’s city council, for which there are nine seats, were present: Elizabeth Shoemaker, Cherie Vaughan, Randy Wilkinson, Tommy Burris and Libby Short, all of whom would be newcomers to the council, plus incumbents Marlin Witcher, James “Happy” Neal, Joe Trigg, Freddie Norris, Chasity Lowery, Terry Bunnell and Max Marion.
The first 40 or so minutes were for informal chatting among those there. The YPs had a list of 16 potential questions prepared with the plan of getting through as many as time permitted. Each response was limited to 2 minutes, but most of the time, the candidates took less than that. The same questions were asked of each candidate, and as the time came for each new question, a candidate’s name was drawn from a container for that person to go first, then the next and on down the line to randomize the order each time.
The candidates who did not attend were incumbent Patrick Gaunce and potential newcomers Phillip Gearlds, Justin Martin and Matt Keith. Incumbent Marna Kirkpatrick was present briefly but left well before the formal questioning began because she wasn’t feeling well.
Question 1: What do you believe is the role of the city council in our community?
Shoemaker said that would be to work as a good team and with the mayor.
“I don’t think any one person can do anything by theirself,” she said.
Burris said the role would be to help people understand what’s going on with the city and council and to help inform people on projects and different ordinances.
Vaughan said they are the representatives for the city constituency and speak for the town.
“We are the ones that uphold all of the city regulations, the rules for the city. We help to run the city ordinances,” she said.
When someone has an issue with other townspeople, she said, the council members are the ones who are supposed to go to the ones who aren’t upholding the city ordinances and make sure they are getting taken care of.
“We also have to have a city plan in place to get things done in this city, like infrastructure for the city so that we can bring in jobs and housing and other things like that, so there’s a lot to do,” Vaughan said.
Neal said the role is to be the voice of the community, the people who vote you into office, and public safety is part of the role.
“We pass ordinances that help guide the city in the right direction,” he said.
Lowery said the council members are elected representatives of the community.
“As the legislative body for Glasgow, it’s our job to be both proactive moreso than reactive, to listen to the concerns of the community and address those in the best way we can,” she said.
Norris said that they are elected officials that are responsible for people, and for him, that starts with his wife.
“Sometimes, she can really straighten me out on some of these issues,” he said.
“We serve,” he said, likening it to how a father serves his family. “We love Glasgow, all of us, and so we want what’s best.”
He said the perspective on what that is may differ from person to person, “but when we come together in one mind and one heart, we usually come out with something better than what we had.”
Witcher said the role of a councilman is to pass legislation, or ordinances and resolutions. They pass a budget and hire people such as police chief and fire chief, and they take complaints.
Marion said they have several roles, and one of those is to be a good role model, not just on the council but also out in the public in general.
“You also need to be a good advocate for the people. They have concerns, and you need to know who to take those concerns to, and being available. Availability is a big thing,” he said.
He noted that it’s not just about being at meetings, including committee meetings, but council members do need to attend those.
Bunnell said the No. 1 role they have as the legislative body is to approve a budget.
“We also work with ordinances or resolutions or executive orders,” he said. “We’ve got to be an ambassador and a cheerleader for the city. We are an advocate. We are the one place that people can turn to to help people find answers, to help people find solutions. We’ve got to be critical thinkers for our community.”
He said they aren’t the executive arm that runs the city on a day-to-day basis, but they can listen to citizens and work with the executive branch to move the city forward.
Trigg said they are part of an elected group who are supposed to be representatives of the city.
“Our main goal, or our main process, is to be a part of the legislative branch, and we have to be proud of a democracy where you have a legislative branch, which is supposed to be a check and balance for whatever’s going on with the executive branch,” he said, noting that a lot of the ideas the mayor would have must go through the council for approval.
He said they are representatives of the people, and when folks bring problems to them, “we should be respectful enough of them to see their opinion and then we should be the voice that takes their opinion forward to the appropriate member.”
Wilkinson responded that he would hope the council would have a vision for the city as a group as to which way it would like to go and then work together toward common goals, under the leadership of the mayor.
He said there are budgetary constraints they must pass, agree with and stay within.
He added that he has seen that they pass a lot of resolutions and ordinances, “so I assume that is a very important part of that, and just being a voice for the city, being a voice for the citizens, listening to them and trying to bring that voice to the council and trying to represent the people … as best we can.”
Short said that because she was last for this question, a lot of her answers had already been taken, but “definitely as a legislative body, there’s the ordinances and resolutions that help make the city better by those as well as budgetary purposes.”
She also feels it’s the role of council members to bring fresh ideas to the table, she said, and to work with the mayor as well as all the department heads.
“I think it’s important that we have a plan, a strategic plan, and that we work to make that happen and make sure that the trajectory of the city is on a positive note for our kids and grandkids,” Short said.
Q2: What steps would you take to ensure transparency and accountability in the decision-making process and what would that look like on city council?
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NOTE: The responses to this question frequently include mention of meetings going into closed session. This is allowable only in certain circumstances as outlined in the Kentucky Open Meetings Act, which is Kentucky Revised Statutes 61.800 through 61.850. KRS 61.810 is the section dealing with exceptions to open meetings.
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Wilkinson said transparency is very important, but he knows there are discussions between council members, and there are laws in place regarding what they can and can’t do with regard to meetings and what can take place behind closed doors.
He said he would like for the public to be able to know what was discussed without bringing any arguments into it, but he also acknowledged you can’t make everybody happy. He said more transparency would help people know what’s happening as it goes along rather than finding out after a decision’s already been made.
Shoemaker said she thinks anything done behind closed doors looks sneaky, especially to the public, whether it really is meant to be or not, so it’s always better to get public involvement and input to help make the best decisions.
Vaughan said she thought everyone’s answer on this would be pretty similar, “because there’s only one way you can really go with this.”
She said she’s heard some discussion about an incidence where someone came to a meeting and wanted to be heard, but maybe the council meeting wasn’t the best place for that, so they’re not going to be put on the agenda.
“But to the public, it looks like they’re being pushed aside,” Vaughan said. “So you need to find a solution, but it’s not going to be at a city council meeting, but you still need to address people’s issues so both sides are heard.”
Transparency and accountability need to be done in a reasonable manner, and if it’s a reasonable issue for the council, it should be added to the agenda, she said, but if it’s not really a council issue, it should be handled elsewhere at a different time.
Neal said that when people come to a council member with a concern, you take it to a committee or the mayor to help find a resolution.
“Sometimes we go into closed session not to hide something,” he said, but they have to because of the law for legal matters and things like that.
He said that when they come out of closed session, they state that no steps were taken.
Short said there has been a lot of talk in the community about closed sessions. She said that the state law defines the circumstances under which they can go into closed session.
“The thing is, you cannot talk about what happens in closed session,” she said, “or you can be fined, if you are a sitting council member who does that, and there are reasons for that.”
She said that if elected, she’s willing to discuss anything someone wants her to, as long as it’s not something from a closed session, but she does think it would be good to have updates or “regular town halls” would go a long way toward helping people feel like they are part of something.
“A lot of division in the community is simply public perception,” Short said.
Bunnell said that when there’s an item being discussed in public or with him in private, he tries to think about what his motivation is with it and how he can help.
“You hear a lot of items that you have to keep confidential,” he said. “You have to know that there’s several items that are in process, that you can’t discuss those yet because they haven’t come to fruition. There’s a lot of working parts, so you’ve got to sit and think about that when it comes to transparency.”
He said there are laws and ethics rules about what can be said.
“To me, the issue that we’ve always got to come back to is, ‘What’s my motivation in this discussion? How can I help move this forward?’ Again, some items I can move forward today. Or I can’t. Some items may take months to come about, but when they come about, then you have an open discussion when it involves our tax dollars, or we have a budget that’s open, when we have meetings that are open, and when we have committee meetings that are open. So the public’s got to understand the engagement process and true democracy of the representation people have,” Bunnell said.
He said he wants citizens to know as much as possible, but there are some things they can’t know yet. Sometimes, he said, part of the reason he can’t discuss something is because he doesn’t have all the facts yet.
Burris said he would hear the people, because they are the ones who elected him.
“It’s in my best favor to take their opinions, their complaints, their voice to the city council meeting so that they can be heard. People in Glasgow want to be part of something, so if you don’t address their issues, then they’ll feel left out and then you’re talked about because you didn’t address it,” he said.
Trigg said he first wanted to talk about the elephant in the room.
“We as citizens, we have to be responsible for being aware of what’s going on in the city so that when decisions are made, they aren’t made in a vacuum,” he said.
He said their hands are tied by laws about what can happen, and city council meetings are preannounced so everyone can know when they are, as are committee meetings, but they don’t have much attendance.
“Those committees are where a lot of ideas are approached and everything else,” Trigg said. “Our government is designed around transparency. Inherent with that become some issues that have to go to closed session. There are rules and laws in place to limit the number of things that can go to closed session, so when we go to closed session, like everybody has said, we’re not really trying to hide anything. That’s just the law. We have those rules in place to provide government for the people. We are your representatives. We can be as transparent as possible, but sometimes our hands are tied. So again, some of the ownership has to come from the people.”
With modern technology, people want to be the first to know or tell others what’s happening, but what happens in closed session is confidential, he said, so that can seem to clash with transparency.
“You can’t sit in closed session dealing with your phone and do TikTok or Zoom,” Trigg said.
Norris said the council meetings start with the pledge to the American flag, and that’s important to him and it sets the stage for the next thing, which is that someone is called upon to lead them in prayer.
“First of all, I’m accountable to God,” he said. “And I’m accountable to you, each person. Transparency is not just like a one-day kind of thing.”
He said most people are transparent in their day-to-day work, in that people can see what they’re doing.
“But another thing I was thinking of with the mayor, if you’ll check with him early at the mayor’s office on an issue that you want to speak to the council, usually he’ll work that out, but you can’t just show up [at the council meeting] and do that; that doesn’t work,” he said.
He advised that the mayor needs at least a week in advance.
Agendas for council meetings are distributed on the Thursdays before the meetings on Mondays.
As for transparency, Norris said the council members have opinions and they may be talking before a meeting starts, getting more information. At that point, the timer alarm sounded, but he didn’t realize what it was, so he kept talking for another minute or so before he was stopped, adding that they can talk one to one but can’t meet as a group privately.
Marion said transparency is important. He’s had people come to him with questions or concerns they didn’t know how to get addressed, and he was able to direct them in the appropriate direction. Regarding closed sessions, he said, “It’s a very legal matter.”
One example he offered is that it could be about a city employee, and they deserve a certain amount of confidential rights and to not be discussed in public, just like patients in a healthcare setting.
“They’re protected and it’s not for anyone else to know,” Marion said.
Lowery said regarding accountability that all council members’ contact information is public record, so citizens have the opportunity to reach out to them.
She said someone asked her at a recent event, “Do you talk to everybody?”
Lowery said she will talk with everyone, and that’s part of her job..
“Whether we agree or disagree, it is our responsibility to all people in Glasgow to speak to them, to listen to them, to hear their concerns, and quite often, that’s all anybody wants is, they want to be heard. They want someone who is going to listen and take some action by calling the appropriate person,” she said. “Transparency comes in getting more people involved.”
Moments like this, meaning the event, when people can meet and talk with their representatives, can help with that, she said. She said that in the five committees [or boards] she’s on, it’s rare for anyone else to attend besides the members, and she would love to see more people attend them, because a lot of great discussions happen there that don’t necessarily make it to a full council meeting.
So, she encouraged people to reach out but said the council members are responsible for being approachable.
Witcher said, “As far as I’m concerned, we are transparent. We try to do what is good for the city. That’s all I can say right now.”
Q3: Based on what you know about city government, what do you see as the top priorities for the city and why?
Most of the candidates reiterated, perhaps elaborating some, their responses from last week’s forum hosted by the Concerned Citizens of Barren County, so they will not be spelled out in as much detail here. Most cited some version of economic development and/or collateral issues like higher-paying jobs, and projects that support that development as the top priority, with affordable housing being a related and significant issue as well. Burris, Shoemaker, Vaughan and Witcher focused on that concept primarily.
Wilkinson said that, based on the council’s recent actions, the “big splash pad or park” project at American Legion Park, is one of their priorities, as well as the purchase of the Johnson property, and they need to increase the tax base. He said he wants the city to provide competitive pay to those who provide services like law enforcement and streets. He said all of that is about dollars, but he also stated he is not for raising taxes.
Bunnell’s response was about managing limited resources, and he said there’s a lot more to attracting new businesses than many people realize.
Neal and Lowery also focused on quality of life and providing the options that make families want to live here. Lowery also noted the city should continue to support the economic development authority, for example, and small businesses that want to make improvements.
Norris said everyone knows about the jobs situation, but he’s mostly concerned about drug problems and the homeless.
Short said increasing revenue is the key issue, but she also related that to economic development, saying we have a lot of good things to attract companies, but we need affordable living and a ready workforce.
Trigg said they need to be good stewards of taxpayer money and understand the limits of their resources and work within them.
Marion said a top priority is creating a place where the younger generation wants to live and work.
“Glasgow is very affordable. It’s very family oriented. It’s very friendly,” he said.
Q4: What’s more important for our city right now — building new homes and commercial space or rehabbing/expanding/better utilizing our existing homes and storefronts?
To one degree or another, few candidates prioritized one type of construction over the other. Vaughan and Short noted funding options that may be available to help with that development, and Short said the city needs a five-year plan, especially with regard to housing.
Wilkinson and Marion emphasized that they don’t see housing as the city government’s role, but Wilkinson said that if that’s the route the city is taking, he thought it would be better to build new.
Lowery shared a similar sentiment, saying they are all needed but the city should have direct control over any of them. She also noted that it’s difficult to define “affordable,” because it’s different for her as a teacher, for example, than someone working in retail or in a factory.
Norris said that the first priority is taking care of existing properties, like each owner taking care of what they have, so that at some point it’s sellable. With regard to commercial property, he said that’s not an area in which he’s been directly involved, but he thinks renovating or building new are good.
Shoemaker said she agreed that it’s a personal choice of what someone wants to do. She said so many had answered the question in the same direction that she would leave it at that.
Trigg said the nature of the local population and the goals that people have, because he thinks the younger generations seem to want different things than his generation, so the city needs to build an environment where both are possible.
Witcher said that what few vacant lots are still available should be used and then existing properties rehabilitated.
Neal said the city isn’t in the real estate business, but a goal is to not have a lot of abandoned residential or commercial properties, so the owners need to take care of them so the city doesn’t have to come through and take care of them.
Burris said he would favor buying more extra land and building new homes rather than tearing down old ones and then rebuilding, because the latter would be more expensive.
Bunnell mentioned a strategic plan that was developed for the city a few years ago, which then led to a Kentucky League of Cities housing study for the county, and it found, obviously, a shortage. Having available housing is the first part of the engine that needs building for the attraction of new businesses and having the people who work for them able to live here.
Q5: If you received a $1 million grant to use for the city any way you wanted, what would you do with it and why?
Norris said he would want to put it into the services the city provides, particularly with infrastructure and safety.
Shoemaker said she’d want to buy a factory that makes electric cars and employs 400 to 600 people, and if she had any funds left, they could be used to help lower-income people remodel their homes.
Bunnell said it could be used to incentivize builders and developers to add new or renovate homes, with a variety of types included. Home ownership is a multiplier of spending, he said, because people need things and services for their homes.
Burris wanted to spread the wealth among several departments to get them new equipment and the police fight fentanyl and he would want to help the school systems with security.
Neal said he would want to give city employees bonuses or raises and use some of it to help fight the drug war.
Trigg said they would need to accept that $1 million wouldn’t go as far as some would think, especially with today’s property prices. He said he would probably want it to go to the general fund for the council to use as effectively as possible.
Witcher said he would apply it toward the farmers market that is about to be constructed, because it would benefit the farmers and everyone else in the community.
Short, revisiting some of the housing discussion, said doesn’t think anyone’s talking about the city’s building homes for individuals, but some of that money could used for tax credits for developers. She said she’d like to spend about $200,000 or so in a way that would help improve addiction recovery options here.
Marion agreed it really wouldn’t go that far, and he wouldn’t want to do what the younger generation does, “Spend, spend, spend.” He would want to pay off any debt the city has and put the rest aside for rainy days.
Wilkinson said it should be a decision for the whole council and the mayor, but if he had decide, he would maybe use some of it toward the American Legion project or toward development of the Johnson property or perhaps give it to a factory as an incentive.
Lowery said she would prefer to save it, but if it’s a grant, that couldn’t happen, so she’d go to the experts in the finance department and the city’s grant writer for options. She returned to the idea of helping with quality-of-life projects, like improvements to the Plaza Theater, or offering small-business grants. Helping with longer-term addiction recovery options and food assistance, like at the soup kitchen, were other options.
Vaughan said that after listening to Lowery, her ideas went in a new direction, and she thought it would be good to invest some of the money in tourism projects. She also liked the idea of addiction recovery resources.
“I want to reiterate having a long-term plan for our city would be a great way to use those dollars so that we see a light at the end of the tunnel of the direction we want to take this city,” she said.
Q6: Please describe how you would react to a situation in which the council voted 4-3 to approve a very contestable issue and you were on the dissenting side.
In their responses to this question, all of the candidates essentially said it can be frustrating to be in the minority vote, but they need to accept it in good stride and move forward as adults, because no one wins every time.
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